1 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:05,619 well good morning everybody again and 2 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:08,370 I'm going to begin by adding a few 3 00:00:15,530 --> 00:00:10,410 things to what Courtney said as to why I 4 00:00:17,870 --> 00:00:15,540 claim to have a credible reputation in 5 00:00:20,269 --> 00:00:17,880 in ufology I'm probably the only one in 6 00:00:21,740 --> 00:00:20,279 the room who ran a proprietary program 7 00:00:23,679 --> 00:00:21,750 for a half-million dollars back in the 8 00:00:25,550 --> 00:00:23,689 late 60s for McDonnell Douglas 9 00:00:28,250 --> 00:00:25,560 investigating the question of how would 10 00:00:30,859 --> 00:00:28,260 you proceed to develop a gravity control 11 00:00:34,610 --> 00:00:30,869 device I'm probably the only one in the 12 00:00:36,590 --> 00:00:34,620 room who owns 4,000 pages of questioned 13 00:00:40,639 --> 00:00:36,600 leaked documents and I'm probably the 14 00:00:41,990 --> 00:00:40,649 only one in the room who was given 15 00:00:44,810 --> 00:00:42,000 hundreds of thousands of dollars to make 16 00:00:48,819 --> 00:00:44,820 a television documentary on the subject 17 00:00:51,350 --> 00:00:48,829 of UFOs and so with that background I'm 18 00:00:52,310 --> 00:00:51,360 claiming that what I'm going to say is 19 00:00:59,930 --> 00:00:52,320 believable 20 00:01:02,090 --> 00:00:59,940 now however however what I was asked to 21 00:01:05,539 --> 00:01:02,100 do was to provide a ten-minute summary 22 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:05,549 of your follow GE or UFOs for the SSC 23 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:08,010 members most of whom do not know much 24 00:01:15,170 --> 00:01:11,250 about the subject except what we just 25 00:01:16,940 --> 00:01:15,180 heard from Jerry Clark and I'm going to 26 00:01:18,170 --> 00:01:16,950 give it to you in four parts first I'm 27 00:01:21,469 --> 00:01:18,180 going to tell you what I think I know 28 00:01:23,090 --> 00:01:21,479 and the more you get involved in a 29 00:01:26,210 --> 00:01:23,100 subject of course just let you know what 30 00:01:28,789 --> 00:01:26,220 you know but I'm going to try to create 31 00:01:31,370 --> 00:01:28,799 a I have created the slide that I think 32 00:01:33,350 --> 00:01:31,380 is one that everyone on the panel 33 00:01:35,510 --> 00:01:33,360 tonight will all agree with we'll see 34 00:01:37,670 --> 00:01:35,520 then I'm going to share some surprising 35 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:37,680 facts with you deal with some unanswered 36 00:01:42,770 --> 00:01:40,170 but interesting Lee scientific questions 37 00:01:46,210 --> 00:01:42,780 and and didn't find up wind up with what 38 00:01:48,710 --> 00:01:46,220 are the issues today first is the 39 00:01:51,230 --> 00:01:48,720 summary what I think I know for sure and 40 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:51,240 the first one is that I know for sure 41 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:53,250 that Professor James McDonald was a 42 00:01:57,109 --> 00:01:55,530 professor of atmospheric sciences at the 43 00:02:00,950 --> 00:01:57,119 University of Arizona in the late 60s 44 00:02:04,100 --> 00:02:00,960 and that he studied cases with great 45 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:04,110 intensity and depths especially radar 46 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:06,090 visual cases where there were lots of 47 00:02:11,089 --> 00:02:09,330 witnesses he presented his conclusions 48 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:11,099 to a number of scientific societies and 49 00:02:13,230 --> 00:02:12,690 gained a reputation such that he was 50 00:02:15,450 --> 00:02:13,240 asked 51 00:02:17,610 --> 00:02:15,460 Congress a congressional committee to 52 00:02:20,610 --> 00:02:17,620 tell him what he thought and in that 53 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:20,620 testimony he said I think that the least 54 00:02:25,550 --> 00:02:22,330 unlikely explanation is that the 55 00:02:28,830 --> 00:02:25,560 extra-terrestrial hypothesis is correct 56 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:28,840 since he was a very cautious scientist 57 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:30,490 he said least unlikely instead of most 58 00:02:36,090 --> 00:02:33,610 likely the second thing I'm I believe 59 00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:36,100 I'm certainly sure of is it they're real 60 00:02:41,460 --> 00:02:38,650 craft they make dents in railroad ties 61 00:02:44,390 --> 00:02:41,470 if they land military confrontations do 62 00:02:47,220 --> 00:02:44,400 occur planes have been shot down and 63 00:02:49,020 --> 00:02:47,230 actually I think quite a few more planes 64 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:49,030 than have been a matter of public record 65 00:02:52,050 --> 00:02:51,130 have been shot down both in this country 66 00:02:55,290 --> 00:02:52,060 and in the Soviet Union 67 00:02:58,970 --> 00:02:55,300 I'm certain that consciousness reports 68 00:03:01,950 --> 00:02:58,980 are present that is interactions between 69 00:03:05,060 --> 00:03:01,960 the craft even if you don't see any 70 00:03:08,010 --> 00:03:05,070 creatures and interactions with 71 00:03:09,690 --> 00:03:08,020 potential aliens I'm certain that the 72 00:03:11,220 --> 00:03:09,700 reports are worldwide and they've been 73 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:11,230 going for a long time in fact we just 74 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:14,770 heard Jerome Clarke summarize a number 75 00:03:20,310 --> 00:03:16,690 of specific cases that are in that 76 00:03:23,490 --> 00:03:20,320 domain and finally I've concluded that 77 00:03:25,350 --> 00:03:23,500 there are some reports that are really 78 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:25,360 curious that there are time anomalies 79 00:03:29,820 --> 00:03:27,970 where people are missing for a few days 80 00:03:31,980 --> 00:03:29,830 and yet their watch is the same time or 81 00:03:33,870 --> 00:03:31,990 vice versa or people are missing for a 82 00:03:35,670 --> 00:03:33,880 few days and they've grown a beard or 83 00:03:37,290 --> 00:03:35,680 they beyond no beard you know or they 84 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:37,300 haven't been missing in the grew a beard 85 00:03:43,230 --> 00:03:39,730 so anyway those kind of time anomalies 86 00:03:46,050 --> 00:03:43,240 are puzzlement that are a little bit 87 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:46,060 more difficult for everyone to deal with 88 00:03:50,820 --> 00:03:48,250 so this is what I think I know for sure 89 00:03:52,830 --> 00:03:50,830 and one of the ways I know for sure is 90 00:03:54,470 --> 00:03:52,840 as we're talking about earlier and the 91 00:03:57,270 --> 00:03:54,480 question answer is from the evidence 92 00:03:58,710 --> 00:03:57,280 well the evidence is the available 93 00:04:00,990 --> 00:03:58,720 evidence now if there are crashed 94 00:04:02,540 --> 00:04:01,000 vehicles and they're kept secret 95 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:02,550 somewhere we don't have that evidence 96 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:05,050 but we do have the evidence that shown 97 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:07,090 here we have a witness testimony we have 98 00:04:10,260 --> 00:04:08,650 the photos we have videos we have 99 00:04:11,820 --> 00:04:10,270 official government studies we have 100 00:04:14,340 --> 00:04:11,830 distinguished leader quotes and we have 101 00:04:16,530 --> 00:04:14,350 leaked documents and I'll give an 102 00:04:19,170 --> 00:04:16,540 example of each of these three beginning 103 00:04:21,210 --> 00:04:19,180 with this photograph comparison which I 104 00:04:22,650 --> 00:04:21,220 really love because the top one was 105 00:04:24,659 --> 00:04:22,660 taken by Paul tried at McMinnville 106 00:04:26,290 --> 00:04:24,669 Oregon in 1950 and the bottom was by 107 00:04:28,270 --> 00:04:26,300 French Air Force pilot in nineteen 108 00:04:30,070 --> 00:04:28,280 fifty-four and the similarity of these 109 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:30,080 shapes and different times have always 110 00:04:38,589 --> 00:04:33,530 impressed me the second evidence example 111 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:38,599 is a handwritten quote from J Edgar 112 00:04:43,749 --> 00:04:41,090 Hoover who says we must insist upon full 113 00:04:45,430 --> 00:04:43,759 access to this recovered for example in 114 00:04:46,659 --> 00:04:45,440 the LA case the army grabbed it would 115 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:46,669 not let us have it for cursory 116 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:51,530 examination in s July 15th 1947 a little 117 00:05:00,040 --> 00:04:55,610 bit after the Roswell crash the third 118 00:05:02,469 --> 00:05:00,050 example I have is an example of a leaked 119 00:05:03,939 --> 00:05:02,479 document that I believed to be authentic 120 00:05:06,850 --> 00:05:03,949 this is from the special operations 121 00:05:09,129 --> 00:05:06,860 manual the special operations manual is 122 00:05:11,020 --> 00:05:09,139 entitled extraterrestrial entities and 123 00:05:13,540 --> 00:05:11,030 technology recovery and disposal and 124 00:05:17,980 --> 00:05:13,550 actually there's examples on the table 125 00:05:19,570 --> 00:05:17,990 in the other room this statement says it 126 00:05:21,580 --> 00:05:19,580 may become necessary to issue false 127 00:05:23,290 --> 00:05:21,590 statements to preserve the security of 128 00:05:24,700 --> 00:05:23,300 the site meteors down satellites weather 129 00:05:27,730 --> 00:05:24,710 balloons military aircraft are all 130 00:05:31,059 --> 00:05:27,740 acceptable so we have had a deception 131 00:05:33,070 --> 00:05:31,069 policy now the second set of things I 132 00:05:33,969 --> 00:05:33,080 want to share with you is the facts that 133 00:05:36,129 --> 00:05:33,979 might surprise you 134 00:05:38,950 --> 00:05:36,139 first extensive reports of crashes 135 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:38,960 Downing's and retrievals you you would 136 00:05:42,100 --> 00:05:40,490 probably be amazed to know that there is 137 00:05:44,649 --> 00:05:42,110 a book out called magic eyes only 138 00:05:47,350 --> 00:05:44,659 written by my own son Ryan Ryan are you 139 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:47,360 in the room yeah he's right there so if 140 00:05:51,999 --> 00:05:49,610 you want to quiz him on this way you can 141 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:52,009 do that at the break but he this book 142 00:05:55,749 --> 00:05:53,810 says that there's 75 crashes he 143 00:05:57,790 --> 00:05:55,759 identified very slow as a quality some 144 00:05:59,399 --> 00:05:57,800 of them require more investigation but 145 00:06:01,869 --> 00:05:59,409 he's used remote viewing in order to 146 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:01,879 verify the location of previous crashes 147 00:06:07,149 --> 00:06:04,210 and to find the location of new crashes 148 00:06:08,619 --> 00:06:07,159 he uses the Stringfield cases and he 149 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:08,629 still identifying new locations and 150 00:06:15,369 --> 00:06:13,490 debris and debris there there's another 151 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:15,379 thing that surprised you probably would 152 00:06:19,899 --> 00:06:16,610 be that there's multiple indications 153 00:06:22,119 --> 00:06:19,909 that crashes started in 1941 242 the 154 00:06:24,999 --> 00:06:22,129 cape girardeau crash is a classic one 155 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:25,009 and then the ones relating to the Battle 156 00:06:31,869 --> 00:06:29,810 of LA the third point is that some 157 00:06:33,610 --> 00:06:31,879 leaked documents may seem to be seem to 158 00:06:36,999 --> 00:06:33,620 be authentic that might surprise you 159 00:06:39,490 --> 00:06:37,009 it's easy to say well these days it's so 160 00:06:40,239 --> 00:06:39,500 simple to get a sophisticated word 161 00:06:42,819 --> 00:06:40,249 processing for 162 00:06:44,649 --> 00:06:42,829 and create almost anything that seems 163 00:06:46,089 --> 00:06:44,659 authentic the answer is if you have 164 00:06:48,039 --> 00:06:46,099 three additional papers it's not that 165 00:06:49,779 --> 00:06:48,049 easy and I'll talk about that later the 166 00:06:53,499 --> 00:06:49,789 fourth thing is that some abduction 167 00:06:55,689 --> 00:06:53,509 tales suggest reality and lastly the 168 00:06:58,359 --> 00:06:55,699 thing that I think most people have no 169 00:07:00,819 --> 00:06:58,369 grasp of especially people who have been 170 00:07:02,979 --> 00:07:00,829 largely in your university domain is 171 00:07:05,499 --> 00:07:02,989 that they have no idea of how 172 00:07:08,049 --> 00:07:05,509 sophisticated the government deception 173 00:07:10,659 --> 00:07:08,059 is and can be I mean we built a whole 174 00:07:14,889 --> 00:07:10,669 city called Oak Ridge and nobody knew 175 00:07:16,449 --> 00:07:14,899 about that essentially nobody now the 176 00:07:18,759 --> 00:07:16,459 third thing I want to share with you by 177 00:07:23,109 --> 00:07:18,769 way of introduction is that there are 178 00:07:24,789 --> 00:07:23,119 questions that you follow just ask that 179 00:07:28,509 --> 00:07:24,799 are really scientifically interesting in 180 00:07:31,329 --> 00:07:28,519 fact I proposed to MUFON the mutual UFO 181 00:07:32,859 --> 00:07:31,339 network and we'll hear from James 182 00:07:36,759 --> 00:07:32,869 carrion who's the director of that 183 00:07:38,289 --> 00:07:36,769 tonight some research projects a history 184 00:07:41,049 --> 00:07:38,299 research project how do they relate 185 00:07:43,389 --> 00:07:41,059 historically demand a Travel Research 186 00:07:45,909 --> 00:07:43,399 project how do they get here from there 187 00:07:47,169 --> 00:07:45,919 wherever there is and what's their 188 00:07:49,359 --> 00:07:47,179 energy source how do they communicate 189 00:07:51,969 --> 00:07:49,369 why are they abducting people and then 190 00:07:53,769 --> 00:07:51,979 finally this last one is added to that 191 00:07:55,059 --> 00:07:53,779 list and that is are their technical 192 00:07:56,679 --> 00:07:55,069 secrets that have already been 193 00:08:01,029 --> 00:07:56,689 discovered that we just don't know about 194 00:08:03,549 --> 00:08:01,039 in the unclassified world so with those 195 00:08:05,889 --> 00:08:03,559 three thoughts behind us let's go to the 196 00:08:07,749 --> 00:08:05,899 final thought set of ideas I wanted to 197 00:08:10,899 --> 00:08:07,759 share with you so that when you hear the 198 00:08:13,179 --> 00:08:10,909 panel discussion tonight and appreciate 199 00:08:15,219 --> 00:08:13,189 the questions that the those who are 200 00:08:17,649 --> 00:08:15,229 knowledgeable are asking each other and 201 00:08:20,529 --> 00:08:17,659 are dealing with the skeptics where 202 00:08:23,439 --> 00:08:20,539 these are the kind of hot issues or some 203 00:08:25,209 --> 00:08:23,449 or all of these documents hoaxed the 204 00:08:28,029 --> 00:08:25,219 second is why wouldn't the government be 205 00:08:29,559 --> 00:08:28,039 willing to disclose the truth and if 206 00:08:31,539 --> 00:08:29,569 there are extraterrestrial high heaven 207 00:08:35,589 --> 00:08:31,549 they contacted us it seems like there's 208 00:08:39,159 --> 00:08:35,599 large numbers of societies that have 209 00:08:41,319 --> 00:08:39,169 been reported than shapes it's amazing 210 00:08:44,259 --> 00:08:41,329 at least one of them hasn't tried how 211 00:08:45,910 --> 00:08:44,269 could you hide so much money to do the 212 00:08:48,340 --> 00:08:45,920 research necessary to secretly study 213 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:48,350 this technology and is there any real 214 00:08:52,150 --> 00:08:51,050 evidence that we have back engineered or 215 00:08:53,319 --> 00:08:52,160 reverse engineered any 216 00:08:56,290 --> 00:08:53,329 thing that we might have recovered from 217 00:08:57,819 --> 00:08:56,300 these crafts and is it possible that 218 00:09:01,559 --> 00:08:57,829 some of the abductions are not real and 219 00:09:07,300 --> 00:09:01,569 it's all a matter of what's in our mind 220 00:09:09,819 --> 00:09:07,310 so these are those are the main ideas I 221 00:09:12,429 --> 00:09:09,829 wanted to share with you in the context 222 00:09:15,730 --> 00:09:12,439 of I've studied this subject for a long 223 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:15,740 time and the more I study at the less 224 00:09:19,300 --> 00:09:17,810 I'm totally sure of but remember the 225 00:09:21,550 --> 00:09:19,310 five things I showed you I really share 226 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:21,560 of that's probably good to go with and 227 00:09:29,170 --> 00:09:25,310 now you know what the issues are so now 228 00:09:31,869 --> 00:09:29,180 I'll proceed to the other part of my 229 00:09:35,499 --> 00:09:31,879 talk today which was the evaluation of 230 00:09:42,519 --> 00:09:35,509 two original paper leaked UFO documents 231 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:42,529 and they are shown here well before I 232 00:09:50,199 --> 00:09:48,410 say that what well the first one is an 233 00:09:55,150 --> 00:09:50,209 encyclopedia of flying saucers by Vernon 234 00:09:57,970 --> 00:09:55,160 Bowen and actually this was given by him 235 00:09:59,769 --> 00:09:57,980 to the Air Force in 1961 they kept it 236 00:10:01,240 --> 00:09:59,779 study that make marks on it and returned 237 00:10:04,150 --> 00:10:01,250 it in 1999 238 00:10:06,639 --> 00:10:04,160 to my source Timothy Cooper and this is 239 00:10:09,579 --> 00:10:06,649 what the current version looks like 240 00:10:14,050 --> 00:10:09,589 actually they're available in the other 241 00:10:17,410 --> 00:10:14,060 room also this is a replication of the 242 00:10:19,540 --> 00:10:17,420 original manuscript in just a moment and 243 00:10:23,949 --> 00:10:19,550 then the second one is the burned memo 244 00:10:28,439 --> 00:10:23,959 which was a 1963 era document that was 245 00:10:37,150 --> 00:10:28,449 mailed by apparently from a CI a metered 246 00:10:39,670 --> 00:10:37,160 meter in 1999 also so these are this is 247 00:10:46,350 --> 00:10:39,680 a list of the documents that I possess 248 00:10:49,689 --> 00:10:46,360 as you can see there's a 104 of them and 249 00:10:51,670 --> 00:10:49,699 nearly 4,000 pages the ones that are in 250 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:51,680 green are the ones where we have the 251 00:10:57,009 --> 00:10:55,250 original negatives and a 35 millimeter 252 00:10:59,470 --> 00:10:57,019 film and I actually have the originals 253 00:11:02,970 --> 00:10:59,480 and the ones in red are where we have 254 00:11:05,730 --> 00:11:02,980 original paper which is old 255 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:05,740 the classifications are showing we're 256 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:06,730 not going to deal much for the 257 00:11:11,490 --> 00:11:08,170 classifications but you can see it's 258 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:11,500 over a range of times from 1984 to 2001 259 00:11:16,949 --> 00:11:14,370 I haven't received any more since 2001 260 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:16,959 the titles of these documents are shown 261 00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:18,730 here but um the first one is the 262 00:11:24,410 --> 00:11:20,649 Eisenhower briefing document the famous 263 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:24,420 one that identified the MJ program with 264 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:28,930 MJ 1 through 12 being individuals and 265 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:31,930 the special operations manual is the 266 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:33,610 other one in green but we're going to 267 00:11:39,689 --> 00:11:35,410 talk about the bowen manuscript first 268 00:11:43,259 --> 00:11:39,699 and then the burned mental I'm going to 269 00:11:46,290 --> 00:11:43,269 tell you how I got it came in a 9 by 14 270 00:11:49,139 --> 00:11:46,300 jiffy mailer to Tim Cooper in June 1999 271 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:49,149 and the return address was Fort Meade 272 00:11:56,370 --> 00:11:51,610 and actually Freedom of Information 273 00:11:58,009 --> 00:11:56,380 Office from the army and sheets were 274 00:12:00,389 --> 00:11:58,019 usually double-spaced and single sided 275 00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:00,399 this is one of the one of the sheets the 276 00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:04,510 first page shows actually three 277 00:12:13,290 --> 00:12:07,649 addresses that Vernon Bowen the author I 278 00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:13,300 had and the it shows the obvious red 279 00:12:20,430 --> 00:12:17,760 stamp the stamp contains for 280 00:12:21,810 --> 00:12:20,440 classification caveats one of them is no 281 00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:21,820 foreign dissemination which is a 282 00:12:27,269 --> 00:12:24,160 well-known one when I'm a size only 283 00:12:28,620 --> 00:12:27,279 which is also a standard one and and 284 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:28,630 then of course the other two they are 285 00:12:34,259 --> 00:12:31,570 not acceptable unknown or top-secret 286 00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:34,269 slash magic which is the code word we'll 287 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:37,120 talk about and in errata which probably 288 00:12:41,519 --> 00:12:39,610 means for original originating agency 289 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:41,529 declassification the classification 290 00:12:50,180 --> 00:12:43,810 Authority means that you can't 291 00:12:52,889 --> 00:12:50,190 declassify this ever so the those three 292 00:12:53,250 --> 00:12:52,899 addresses gave me an easy trail to 293 00:12:56,579 --> 00:12:53,260 follow 294 00:12:59,309 --> 00:12:56,589 I put up a call to put in a call to the 295 00:13:00,870 --> 00:12:59,319 church said oh yeah remember Vernon born 296 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:00,880 he had a son Patrick come on his number 297 00:13:06,210 --> 00:13:03,370 so it's brought as easy you could run 298 00:13:07,530 --> 00:13:06,220 into than finding somebody so I I called 299 00:13:09,210 --> 00:13:07,540 him told him I had this manuscript he 300 00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:09,220 never knew of the existence the 301 00:13:12,090 --> 00:13:10,240 manuscript but he still had the 302 00:13:13,620 --> 00:13:12,100 typewriter it was typed on it was very 303 00:13:15,389 --> 00:13:13,630 cooperative he wanted to see his dad but 304 00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:15,399 there's a book published and and so 305 00:13:19,379 --> 00:13:16,720 that's why we made two 306 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:19,389 other copies of which we have 50 or so 307 00:13:24,869 --> 00:13:23,050 left and there as they say available the 308 00:13:26,819 --> 00:13:24,879 appearance is old looking pages the 309 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:26,829 watermark was there the glue was dried 310 00:13:30,540 --> 00:13:28,689 the clippings are loose and the red and 311 00:13:32,579 --> 00:13:30,550 black caveat stamps I'll have an example 312 00:13:34,249 --> 00:13:32,589 of and marginalia and different hands 313 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:34,259 here's the way the clippings were 314 00:13:40,650 --> 00:13:36,370 fastened with old blue and they just 315 00:13:43,499 --> 00:13:40,660 kind of face fell off but Vernon Bowen 316 00:13:45,329 --> 00:13:43,509 is very thorough guy he had apparently 317 00:13:47,460 --> 00:13:45,339 spent nearly every noon hour in New York 318 00:13:49,050 --> 00:13:47,470 City library looking up the readers 319 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:49,060 guide to periodical literature and 320 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:51,370 captured every single entry having to do 321 00:13:57,900 --> 00:13:53,290 with flying saucers up till the time 322 00:13:59,699 --> 00:13:57,910 hood he stopped in 1954 so what is this 323 00:14:02,009 --> 00:13:59,709 book say well actually he's a good 324 00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:02,019 writer he wrote children's books but he 325 00:14:07,530 --> 00:14:05,680 was he has he has a natural style he 326 00:14:10,379 --> 00:14:07,540 it's some kind of gripping going from 327 00:14:12,749 --> 00:14:10,389 chapter to chapter so the chapters are 328 00:14:14,490 --> 00:14:12,759 15 chapters he begins really with the 329 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:14,500 same sort of flavor that you just heard 330 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:16,569 from Jerome Clark he talks about the 331 00:14:21,179 --> 00:14:18,610 things that charles fort reported that 332 00:14:22,530 --> 00:14:21,189 aren't anomalistic phenomena and then 333 00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:22,540 finally in the middle of it he talks 334 00:14:28,559 --> 00:14:25,360 about flying saucers gives a report on 335 00:14:29,939 --> 00:14:28,569 every periodical and every sighting up 336 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:29,949 to that point that was in the public 337 00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:33,610 literature then when he comes to chapter 338 00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:35,680 12 the US Air Force and flying saucers 339 00:14:41,340 --> 00:14:39,040 it turns out that's when the stamps on 340 00:14:44,519 --> 00:14:41,350 this document change from confidential 341 00:14:46,559 --> 00:14:44,529 to top-secret slash magic and so clearly 342 00:14:48,030 --> 00:14:46,569 the Air Force was looking this over to 343 00:14:50,699 --> 00:14:48,040 determine whether or not there was 344 00:14:52,379 --> 00:14:50,709 something important here and they didn't 345 00:14:54,389 --> 00:14:52,389 they classified it before they decided 346 00:14:57,389 --> 00:14:54,399 of course they do that and then he 347 00:14:59,850 --> 00:14:57,399 concludes with an interesting one he he 348 00:15:03,240 --> 00:14:59,860 really doesn't know in 1954 what they 349 00:15:05,819 --> 00:15:03,250 are but he says he wonders whether or 350 00:15:08,189 --> 00:15:05,829 not they're the Soviets very seriously 351 00:15:10,230 --> 00:15:08,199 and and then he thinks that well maybe 352 00:15:12,210 --> 00:15:10,240 we've been capturing some of them 353 00:15:14,460 --> 00:15:12,220 ourselves and in any case sooner or 354 00:15:15,869 --> 00:15:14,470 later we will know the technology so he 355 00:15:19,949 --> 00:15:15,879 winds up with that thought they will be 356 00:15:22,199 --> 00:15:19,959 sometime hours now I want to share with 357 00:15:24,990 --> 00:15:22,209 you a cartoon for a specific reason 358 00:15:27,429 --> 00:15:25,000 blondie mm cat cartoon has Dagwood 359 00:15:29,919 --> 00:15:27,439 talking to 360 00:15:32,099 --> 00:15:29,929 clerk the cat abducted by space aliens 361 00:15:34,210 --> 00:15:32,109 Bigfoot decided who reads this trash 362 00:15:36,639 --> 00:15:34,220 clerk says over 20 million readers 363 00:15:40,359 --> 00:15:36,649 Dagwood would you take out the trash cuz 364 00:15:43,869 --> 00:15:40,369 I haven't finished reading it yet and 365 00:15:46,329 --> 00:15:43,879 what you don't know is that maybe at one 366 00:15:48,789 --> 00:15:46,339 time the National Enquirer was 367 00:15:52,719 --> 00:15:48,799 controlled by some CIA employees and 368 00:15:54,819 --> 00:15:52,729 putting stories in about UFOs if it was 369 00:15:56,889 --> 00:15:54,829 to the advantage so I bought a copy of 370 00:15:59,079 --> 00:15:56,899 the National Enquirer yesterday to see 371 00:16:01,149 --> 00:15:59,089 what it says and it doesn't say anything 372 00:16:03,429 --> 00:16:01,159 about UFOs today but it's all it's all 373 00:16:06,969 --> 00:16:03,439 Hollywood now probably and crow 374 00:16:09,309 --> 00:16:06,979 enthralled by a different management so 375 00:16:11,079 --> 00:16:09,319 the forensic analysis stating of the 376 00:16:12,759 --> 00:16:11,089 document was done by speck in 377 00:16:14,349 --> 00:16:12,769 laboratories and they did a thin layer 378 00:16:16,210 --> 00:16:14,359 chromatography one of the standard 379 00:16:18,189 --> 00:16:16,220 techniques to determine the age of ink 380 00:16:19,629 --> 00:16:18,199 looked at the pencils could try to 381 00:16:23,219 --> 00:16:19,639 compare the watermarks couldn't find a 382 00:16:26,679 --> 00:16:23,229 watermark for this particular one and 383 00:16:28,329 --> 00:16:26,689 James black did the dating of the well 384 00:16:30,579 --> 00:16:28,339 he identified the typewriter 385 00:16:32,590 --> 00:16:30,589 specifically in 1939 under wood and that 386 00:16:34,779 --> 00:16:32,600 is exactly the typewriter that his son 387 00:16:36,460 --> 00:16:34,789 says he has so there's no question but 388 00:16:42,279 --> 00:16:36,470 what this one was written by Vernon 389 00:16:45,899 --> 00:16:42,289 Bowen the pencils are consistent with 390 00:16:52,719 --> 00:16:45,909 1950s the red stamp ink is not a recent 391 00:16:54,519 --> 00:16:52,729 mixture of red ink so there's really two 392 00:16:56,829 --> 00:16:54,529 ages of inks that are important one is 393 00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:56,839 the ballpoint ink 1961 which is written 394 00:17:01,029 --> 00:16:58,399 by Vernon Bowen based on the nature of 395 00:17:03,939 --> 00:17:01,039 the comments and that was just before he 396 00:17:06,939 --> 00:17:03,949 gave it to the Air Force for evaluation 397 00:17:09,999 --> 00:17:06,949 and then the 1977 ballpoint ink has to 398 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:10,009 do with comments relating to association 399 00:17:18,100 --> 00:17:13,250 with UFO program we'll talk about those 400 00:17:19,779 --> 00:17:18,110 right now here's an example he's talking 401 00:17:21,869 --> 00:17:19,789 about actually Vernon is talking about 402 00:17:24,009 --> 00:17:21,879 you can spin tall tales of moon dust 403 00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:24,019 accused the Air Force of covering up the 404 00:17:28,779 --> 00:17:25,370 greatest story since Christ and so forth 405 00:17:31,299 --> 00:17:28,789 and the the writer and the left has put 406 00:17:34,769 --> 00:17:31,309 Project moon dust well it turns out 407 00:17:37,539 --> 00:17:34,779 project moon dust is a project that is 408 00:17:40,420 --> 00:17:37,549 classified but generally it's been 409 00:17:43,630 --> 00:17:40,430 identified as a recovery program to 410 00:17:45,790 --> 00:17:43,640 for any if any vehicle crashes and we'll 411 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:45,800 go recover it and and of course the 412 00:17:50,350 --> 00:17:48,410 moondust recovery program has allegedly 413 00:17:52,330 --> 00:17:50,360 a top-secret version which is recovering 414 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:52,340 UFOs as opposed to just ordinary 415 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:55,250 satellites that are crashing this 416 00:17:59,110 --> 00:17:56,930 particular page is interesting because 417 00:18:01,150 --> 00:17:59,120 it's got one of the original stamps that 418 00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:01,160 blue stamp makes this very authentic 419 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:03,110 with respect to the Air Force use and 420 00:18:08,260 --> 00:18:06,530 the handwritten information there says 421 00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:08,270 do not withdraw from files personal 422 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:10,400 notes of Colonel Hayward and the 423 00:18:17,610 --> 00:18:13,610 Hawaiian of ATI CA TCAP BP our UFO 424 00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:17,620 section these are identification of the 425 00:18:24,970 --> 00:18:20,510 organizations at wright-patterson that 426 00:18:28,780 --> 00:18:24,980 dealt with UFOs another interesting one 427 00:18:30,430 --> 00:18:28,790 was a comment in the book that a Harvard 428 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:30,440 professor is telling his classes he can 429 00:18:34,690 --> 00:18:31,490 prove that there are people in other 430 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:34,700 planets and one reviewer said was a 431 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:35,930 highly dubious source of information 432 00:18:41,710 --> 00:18:38,930 Dorothy Kilgallen but the other one says 433 00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:41,720 what is diem doing and here's the 434 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:44,960 original which shows right here this is 435 00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:48,490 what is diem doing this 1977 egg and 436 00:18:55,030 --> 00:18:50,510 excuse me that's Pitt this is brothers 437 00:18:57,540 --> 00:18:55,040 pencil this is pencil and this is says I 438 00:19:00,010 --> 00:18:57,550 hope diem teeps his big mouth shut so 439 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:00,020 for those of you who are familiar at all 440 00:19:03,610 --> 00:19:01,490 was the Eisenhower briefing documents 441 00:19:06,580 --> 00:19:03,620 don Menzel was identified as one of the 442 00:19:08,350 --> 00:19:06,590 MJ members 1 through 12 and he was a 443 00:19:11,290 --> 00:19:08,360 professor who wrote three books that 444 00:19:14,590 --> 00:19:11,300 were anti UFO books that tried to 445 00:19:18,220 --> 00:19:14,600 destroy the credibility of cases that 446 00:19:20,740 --> 00:19:18,230 were being discussed the final set of 447 00:19:23,470 --> 00:19:20,750 annotations that impressed me are on 448 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:23,480 notes apparently by Ben Hayward himself 449 00:19:28,510 --> 00:19:25,970 who was apparently talking to someone 450 00:19:31,930 --> 00:19:28,520 who's the distinguished guy wants to 451 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:31,940 learn more he talks about NPIC 452 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:33,530 a national photographic information 453 00:19:37,930 --> 00:19:36,290 center white-hot which is the label for 454 00:19:41,260 --> 00:19:37,940 a set of leaked documents that I have 455 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:41,270 Blue Room which is allegedly where the 456 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:43,730 aliens were kept at wright-patt and TS 457 00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:45,770 restricted a classification that has 458 00:19:50,659 --> 00:19:48,710 been denied to be existing and Natan 459 00:19:52,879 --> 00:19:50,669 Vann presumably could be Nathan 460 00:19:57,859 --> 00:19:52,889 you know planning and event in 461 00:20:01,099 --> 00:19:57,869 Vandenberg so anyway the that's the 462 00:20:03,950 --> 00:20:01,109 summary of that particular one document 463 00:20:06,739 --> 00:20:03,960 which has a few notations on the side 464 00:20:10,789 --> 00:20:06,749 which kind of reinforce the credibility 465 00:20:13,970 --> 00:20:10,799 of the existence of a program to study 466 00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:13,980 UFOs by the government but not or not as 467 00:20:17,899 --> 00:20:15,600 much as the one that I'm about to share 468 00:20:21,229 --> 00:20:17,909 with you the next one which was the burn 469 00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:21,239 metal this came from five minutes okay 470 00:20:27,289 --> 00:20:24,960 this came from McLean Virginia postmark 471 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:27,299 and it was later correlated with a CIA 472 00:20:32,930 --> 00:20:30,210 zip code the pages shows scorch marks 473 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:32,940 and this is the first page that director 474 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:36,570 of Central Intelligence mj1 writing 2mj 475 00:20:42,979 --> 00:20:38,850 two through seven as you can see talking 476 00:20:46,249 --> 00:20:42,989 about MJ majestic and jehovah which is 477 00:20:49,129 --> 00:20:46,259 perhaps the real reason for the MJ 478 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:49,139 abbreviations it also has a signature by 479 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:51,690 Fritz for JJ angleton James Jesus 480 00:20:56,239 --> 00:20:53,730 angleton who was the guy who ran the 481 00:20:59,299 --> 00:20:56,249 counterintelligence of the CIA for many 482 00:21:02,119 --> 00:20:59,309 years in a parallel organization to 483 00:21:04,970 --> 00:21:02,129 check on the rest of the CIA the cover 484 00:21:07,269 --> 00:21:04,980 note is relevant basically it came from 485 00:21:09,409 --> 00:21:07,279 the leaker who says he's a retired CIA 486 00:21:11,090 --> 00:21:09,419 counterintelligence officer it worked 487 00:21:13,159 --> 00:21:11,100 for angleton and he says this is the 488 00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:13,169 last piece of paper that connects mj-12 489 00:21:21,049 --> 00:21:19,200 with JFK's murder and he it also says 490 00:21:22,310 --> 00:21:21,059 that that at the time is fast 491 00:21:24,109 --> 00:21:22,320 approaching when the files of the 492 00:21:26,090 --> 00:21:24,119 majestic Jehovah project will be pried 493 00:21:26,659 --> 00:21:26,100 loose to the public's right to know will 494 00:21:29,450 --> 00:21:26,669 begin 495 00:21:31,849 --> 00:21:29,460 celina is a person who's a secretary for 496 00:21:33,109 --> 00:21:31,859 the CIA we also have a leak from the 497 00:21:36,289 --> 00:21:33,119 claim they've been keeping the UFO 498 00:21:39,019 --> 00:21:36,299 community busy and in some way you don't 499 00:21:40,940 --> 00:21:39,029 know hi these are the eight tabs that 500 00:21:43,580 --> 00:21:40,950 are associated with this and I just got 501 00:21:46,940 --> 00:21:43,590 a slide on each one of these tabs but 502 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:46,950 there the first page summarizes the 503 00:21:53,539 --> 00:21:50,850 situation that we have that JFK was 504 00:21:56,690 --> 00:21:53,549 known as Lancer at the time and Lancer 505 00:21:59,779 --> 00:21:56,700 was inquiring about activities which we 506 00:22:02,479 --> 00:21:59,789 cannot allow namely he was asking more 507 00:22:03,830 --> 00:22:02,489 about the UFO program our deadline for 508 00:22:06,919 --> 00:22:03,840 decision 509 00:22:10,330 --> 00:22:06,929 jae-won allan dulles wanted to have the 510 00:22:13,820 --> 00:22:10,340 other MJ members decide and agree with 511 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:13,830 his proposed ground rules which are the 512 00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:16,770 following eight slides first what 513 00:22:22,490 --> 00:22:20,130 happens if the president asks about UFOs 514 00:22:24,140 --> 00:22:22,500 well how why is he asking declare that 515 00:22:27,289 --> 00:22:24,150 it's not a security threat we'll come to 516 00:22:30,470 --> 00:22:27,299 that in just a moment on the keep the 517 00:22:32,570 --> 00:22:30,480 FBI included just enough to so they can 518 00:22:34,430 --> 00:22:32,580 keep the secret and the instruction was 519 00:22:37,279 --> 00:22:34,440 keep our spies or backchannels they're 520 00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:37,289 in place so that we know what the FBI is 521 00:22:41,659 --> 00:22:39,510 thinking the intent of the second third 522 00:22:44,330 --> 00:22:41,669 tab was to say that DoD air security 523 00:22:47,419 --> 00:22:44,340 does not apply to MJ except in the case 524 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:47,429 of a couple of sub one subcommittee by 525 00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:50,490 the National Security Council 54:12 and 526 00:22:55,450 --> 00:22:52,320 some special classified executive orders 527 00:23:01,549 --> 00:22:55,460 which some people claim don't even exist 528 00:23:03,289 --> 00:23:01,559 the attentive Tab D was to define Blue 529 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:03,299 Book as in the National Intelligence 530 00:23:13,639 --> 00:23:08,850 Estimate and proceed with its role which 531 00:23:16,639 --> 00:23:13,649 was to discredit credibility and if 532 00:23:20,110 --> 00:23:16,649 anybody asks any Congress supreme court 533 00:23:22,610 --> 00:23:20,120 whoever asks even if they're authorized 534 00:23:24,049 --> 00:23:22,620 even if a pretty high ranking tell them 535 00:23:27,019 --> 00:23:24,059 that we won't tell them anything about 536 00:23:28,460 --> 00:23:27,029 the program at end of tab F was on 537 00:23:30,159 --> 00:23:28,470 psychological operations one of the 538 00:23:32,450 --> 00:23:30,169 things that has impressed me is the 539 00:23:34,159 --> 00:23:32,460 enormous emphasis that was placed in the 540 00:23:36,620 --> 00:23:34,169 UFO leaked documents that I have on 541 00:23:38,779 --> 00:23:36,630 psychological operations to make sure 542 00:23:40,970 --> 00:23:38,789 that we have a sophisticated set of 543 00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:40,980 cover stories so that the public really 544 00:23:47,060 --> 00:23:44,880 never grasps what's going on and finally 545 00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:47,070 not finally but the next last is the 546 00:23:52,430 --> 00:23:49,110 tentative Tab G was concerning 547 00:23:54,860 --> 00:23:52,440 biological warfare and presumably the 548 00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:54,870 problem is alien pathogens when they 549 00:23:57,740 --> 00:23:56,370 have a program called spike and 550 00:24:00,680 --> 00:23:57,750 housecleaning that's already in place 551 00:24:04,399 --> 00:24:00,690 but they have a plan for backup using 552 00:24:06,860 --> 00:24:04,409 MKULTRA and MKULTRA as some of you may 553 00:24:10,130 --> 00:24:06,870 know was an illegal unethical program 554 00:24:13,340 --> 00:24:10,140 for mind-control using chemicals of the 555 00:24:14,779 --> 00:24:13,350 day plus other programs called artichoke 556 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:14,789 and domestic what we don't know what 557 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:17,010 they are and finally the 558 00:24:20,930 --> 00:24:19,290 here was it if it looks like we're going 559 00:24:24,020 --> 00:24:20,940 to lose our group and get no more money 560 00:24:26,810 --> 00:24:24,030 then we ought to try assasin a shoe and 561 00:24:28,610 --> 00:24:26,820 if you look at these words here it 562 00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:28,620 basically says at the bottom if the 563 00:24:33,220 --> 00:24:30,960 weather is lacking any precipitation it 564 00:24:36,110 --> 00:24:33,230 should be wet and what that is is 565 00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:36,120 commonly known to be as wet is a code 566 00:24:40,550 --> 00:24:37,710 word for assassination in the criminal 567 00:24:42,770 --> 00:24:40,560 world so basically this is an 568 00:24:47,210 --> 00:24:42,780 authorization in principle to 569 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:47,220 assassinate JFK and so I'll have another 570 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:49,650 20 seconds of conclusions here and that 571 00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:52,650 is that I think the original paper and 572 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:54,000 ink dating essentially rules out of 573 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:55,770 modern hoax for these two documents if 574 00:24:58,130 --> 00:24:57,570 there was a hoax that was done then not 575 00:25:01,910 --> 00:24:58,140 now 576 00:25:04,010 --> 00:25:01,920 the bow and marginalia strongly suggests 577 00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:04,020 that a mj-12 program existed and the 578 00:25:09,140 --> 00:25:07,110 Byrne memo shows issues between JFK and 579 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:09,150 mj-12 and reinforces the existence of 580 00:25:15,290 --> 00:25:11,850 CIA covert UFO projects buried in the 581 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:15,300 counterintelligence world and so how 582 00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:23,850 about that Courtney I think you're 583 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:31,460 yeah who would like to ask questions we 584 00:25:40,220 --> 00:25:37,890 have five minutes Oh Brenda needs to 585 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:40,230 make a short announcement first where's 586 00:26:05,000 --> 00:25:54,620 it does appear almost convincing the 587 00:26:08,690 --> 00:26:05,010 burden memo something like this it has 588 00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:08,700 such an explosive import that it would 589 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:10,320 seem to me that it could have been 590 00:26:16,460 --> 00:26:13,770 hoaxed by some extremely devilishly 591 00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:16,470 clever hoaxers they could have obtained 592 00:26:25,580 --> 00:26:20,880 old paper and old ink and created a very 593 00:26:27,950 --> 00:26:25,590 convincing fake isn't that possible well 594 00:26:29,670 --> 00:26:27,960 it's always possible to imagine a 595 00:26:31,620 --> 00:26:29,680 scenario where there 596 00:26:33,510 --> 00:26:31,630 there is a hoax situation but the 597 00:26:35,070 --> 00:26:33,520 question is what is the probability of 598 00:26:37,290 --> 00:26:35,080 that hypothesis being correct that's 599 00:26:39,390 --> 00:26:37,300 what the SSA typically does is is list 600 00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:39,400 the different hypotheses and select the 601 00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:41,200 one that's most reasonable yes that 602 00:26:52,290 --> 00:26:42,510 should be on the list of hypotheses 603 00:26:55,380 --> 00:26:52,300 whose Ennis was in New York I have to 604 00:26:59,520 --> 00:26:55,390 admit that what strains credibility for 605 00:27:01,860 --> 00:26:59,530 me the most in this is the amazingly 606 00:27:05,970 --> 00:27:01,870 variable level of competence and 607 00:27:08,220 --> 00:27:05,980 dedication involved I mean if a rogue US 608 00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:08,230 government agency had enough clout in 609 00:27:12,630 --> 00:27:10,960 enough secrecy to arrange the 610 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:12,640 assassination of a president who is 611 00:27:18,540 --> 00:27:16,210 getting too close to the truth why have 612 00:27:20,930 --> 00:27:18,550 not you for example with all of these 613 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:20,940 leaked classified documents in your 614 00:27:28,380 --> 00:27:24,370 possession not quietly been disappeared 615 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:28,390 oh 10 years ago or so well that's a fair 616 00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:32,050 question actually I feel that the 617 00:27:36,780 --> 00:27:34,510 documents are very important I keep them 618 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:36,790 you know locked up pretty securely now 619 00:27:42,090 --> 00:27:39,450 however this is the first time I've 620 00:27:44,580 --> 00:27:42,100 exposed this level of detail and that 621 00:27:46,350 --> 00:27:44,590 document to any audience so I don't 622 00:27:48,660 --> 00:27:46,360 think I've ever stated before that that 623 00:27:49,860 --> 00:27:48,670 document clearly links mj-12 with the 624 00:27:53,340 --> 00:27:49,870 Kennedy assassination 625 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:53,350 so however I've enjoyed life and if I 626 00:28:00,120 --> 00:27:55,450 get assassinated way that's the breaks I 627 00:28:00,450 --> 00:28:00,130 have had a lot of fun Bob is this thing 628 00:28:10,500 --> 00:28:00,460 on 629 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:10,510 able to determine through your talks 630 00:28:14,700 --> 00:28:12,250 with him what happened to any of the 631 00:28:16,770 --> 00:28:14,710 other research or papers that Vernon 632 00:28:17,790 --> 00:28:16,780 Bowen has if it has been preserved 633 00:28:20,850 --> 00:28:17,800 because thank you that's an excellent 634 00:28:22,110 --> 00:28:20,860 question because as soon as I found out 635 00:28:23,910 --> 00:28:22,120 that he was willing to be friendly and 636 00:28:25,860 --> 00:28:23,920 cooperative I said well hey I got lots 637 00:28:27,630 --> 00:28:25,870 of reasons to come to New York City 638 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:27,640 because my sister lives there is she 639 00:28:33,510 --> 00:28:31,330 sitting in the audience too and so I 640 00:28:35,430 --> 00:28:33,520 said is it okay for me to come and let's 641 00:28:37,380 --> 00:28:35,440 look and your father's files and so he 642 00:28:38,970 --> 00:28:37,390 said sure so actually we went over to a 643 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:38,980 second house crawled up into the attic 644 00:28:42,780 --> 00:28:40,930 and open up the doors to all of his 645 00:28:43,410 --> 00:28:42,790 father's files and we found a few 646 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:43,420 additional 647 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:48,210 papers from what he had but there was no 648 00:28:55,020 --> 00:28:51,730 there was nothing that was really the 649 00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:55,030 earth-shattering result but thank you 650 00:28:59,250 --> 00:28:56,320 that's a good question 651 00:29:03,000 --> 00:28:59,260 you have been reported that the 652 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:03,010 astronaut saw some object on the moon 653 00:29:07,890 --> 00:29:05,530 did you ever interview the astronauts 654 00:29:14,730 --> 00:29:07,900 because you make no mention of that kind 655 00:29:16,230 --> 00:29:14,740 of a sauce okay well I do I do know ed 656 00:29:18,450 --> 00:29:16,240 Mitchell a little bit in fact he's 657 00:29:23,340 --> 00:29:18,460 participate I think in SSE meetings but 658 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:23,350 one of the things that you find in in a 659 00:29:27,990 --> 00:29:25,690 discipline like ufology it is so broad 660 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:28,000 that you wind up having to specialize 661 00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:30,730 and so I specialize in documents if 662 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:33,760 somebody were to tell me what they saw 663 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:35,770 last night I would find somebody else to 664 00:29:40,410 --> 00:29:37,930 go examine it in fact the mutual UFO 665 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:40,420 network as a whole arsenal of people who 666 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:42,490 go out and and follow up on reports 667 00:29:51,090 --> 00:29:49,450 including reports from astronauts oh yes 668 00:29:52,860 --> 00:29:51,100 oh absolutely 669 00:29:54,330 --> 00:29:52,870 astronauts are wonderful but that's not 670 00:29:56,580 --> 00:29:54,340 the thing that I do and I've I've never 671 00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:56,590 tried to interview people it's not my 672 00:30:02,040 --> 00:29:58,210 specialty 673 00:30:05,130 --> 00:30:02,050 how well-documented is the information 674 00:30:08,460 --> 00:30:05,140 presented in Phillip Corsos book I think 675 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:08,470 it's what Roswell revisited good 676 00:30:17,790 --> 00:30:14,490 question how the I gave a whole talk on 677 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:17,800 to of course those look and feel course 678 00:30:25,230 --> 00:30:22,050 so at at one time and my recollection of 679 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:25,240 what I said and what I think now is that 680 00:30:30,830 --> 00:30:28,330 when Phil Corso states specifically that 681 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:30,840 he did something he's probably 682 00:30:37,230 --> 00:30:33,610 accurately stating that when he states 683 00:30:39,210 --> 00:30:37,240 that someone else did something like we 684 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:39,220 reverse-engineer this but he never saw 685 00:30:44,340 --> 00:30:42,010 it then I'd say he might be susceptible 686 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:44,350 to exaggeration and/or speculation I 687 00:30:49,020 --> 00:30:47,410 don't know it's possible that John 688 00:30:51,930 --> 00:30:49,030 Alexander may comment on that on that 689 00:30:53,250 --> 00:30:51,940 point but I think when he stated 690 00:30:55,890 --> 00:30:53,260 something that he 691 00:30:58,380 --> 00:30:55,900 himself I think he was an honest man and 692 00:31:01,500 --> 00:30:58,390 I think he was stating it what he what 693 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:01,510 he did whether what he stated about 694 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:03,490 other people is more questionable okay 695 00:31:08,190 --> 00:31:05,050 we have just one more question I'm sorry 696 00:31:11,180 --> 00:31:08,200 I may be a technical question on the 697 00:31:13,170 --> 00:31:11,190 borne document but I'm a bit puzzled why 698 00:31:14,820 --> 00:31:13,180 for a document that parently were 699 00:31:17,580 --> 00:31:14,830 preserved pretty high up in the Air 700 00:31:19,950 --> 00:31:17,590 Force hierarchy ends up being released 701 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:19,960 by the Fort Meade for your office that 702 00:31:24,810 --> 00:31:21,490 doesn't make much sense to me well I'm 703 00:31:26,340 --> 00:31:24,820 I'm agreed with that question too if you 704 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:26,350 want me to speculate on the answer 705 00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:29,410 briefly this document was clearly given 706 00:31:34,050 --> 00:31:32,110 to the Air Force for evaluation and and 707 00:31:35,610 --> 00:31:34,060 was evaluated at the classified level 708 00:31:37,410 --> 00:31:35,620 but there was nothing there 709 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:37,420 there was nothing important and so they 710 00:31:40,770 --> 00:31:39,130 stuck it in a file and here he is in a 711 00:31:42,930 --> 00:31:40,780 top-secret file well it's not easy to 712 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:42,940 declassify it and I think frankly the 713 00:31:47,130 --> 00:31:45,010 guys who are in charge of the that 714 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:47,140 particular file didn't know what to do 715 00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:49,330 with it but they did follow the subject 716 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:51,760 enough said well he knew this guy Tim 717 00:31:56,490 --> 00:31:54,370 Cooper was receiving leaked documents 718 00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:56,500 let's mail it to him and so I think it 719 00:31:59,940 --> 00:31:58,210 was as simple as that they stuck it in 720 00:32:01,380 --> 00:31:59,950 the envelope there was no transmittal 721 00:32:07,130 --> 00:32:01,390 letter they got it out of their files 722 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:07,140 they didn't have to account for it okay 723 00:32:19,980 --> 00:32:16,140 I'm new to this and so I'm looking at it 724 00:32:22,550 --> 00:32:19,990 from a perspective of trying to really 725 00:32:25,890 --> 00:32:22,560 the previous speaker talked about 726 00:32:28,770 --> 00:32:25,900 leaving the observation and questioning 727 00:32:30,780 --> 00:32:28,780 the explanation yes when I look at what 728 00:32:32,310 --> 00:32:30,790 you presented I'd seems very credible to 729 00:32:33,630 --> 00:32:32,320 me that these are real documents and 730 00:32:37,620 --> 00:32:33,640 that these are real statements that were 731 00:32:38,970 --> 00:32:37,630 made my impression is that my first 732 00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:38,980 impression is that well why couldn't 733 00:32:44,370 --> 00:32:42,480 this be evidence of a black ops 734 00:32:46,530 --> 00:32:44,380 operation in the government which we 735 00:32:50,820 --> 00:32:46,540 know exists we know that they go through 736 00:32:52,530 --> 00:32:50,830 a great deal of effort to do a lot of 737 00:32:56,220 --> 00:32:52,540 black ops experimentation and 738 00:32:58,980 --> 00:32:56,230 development and the explanation would be 739 00:33:00,540 --> 00:32:58,990 therefore the relationship with JFK if 740 00:33:02,820 --> 00:33:00,550 someone and especially when you 741 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:02,830 mentioned funding that's one of the 742 00:33:10,100 --> 00:33:05,210 greatest motivations for 743 00:33:11,210 --> 00:33:10,110 concern the does that exclamation fit 744 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:11,220 with your evidence or have you 745 00:33:18,830 --> 00:33:15,330 considered that the question is what I'm 746 00:33:21,650 --> 00:33:18,840 sorry list of there's black operations 747 00:33:23,750 --> 00:33:21,660 explained well this is clearly a black 748 00:33:25,190 --> 00:33:23,760 operation that was so black that none of 749 00:33:26,750 --> 00:33:25,200 the other black operations knew about it 750 00:33:28,310 --> 00:33:26,760 and that was the whole point there was 751 00:33:31,250 --> 00:33:28,320 just one place that was really 752 00:33:33,380 --> 00:33:31,260 controlling this program and the other 753 00:33:35,150 --> 00:33:33,390 the other people who were cleared for 754 00:33:37,430 --> 00:33:35,160 top secret code word were basically